Do we have a breeding calculator on this site? I was wondering, because sometimes I go to a site that has breeding info, egg pages, and a breeding calculator. I was wondering if we have something similar and if not, perhaps it might be worthwhile to consider allowing a link to the site to handle some of the breeding questions?
Btw, I am using the user/breeding results template on my blog to report my breeding attempts. I got a Leviathan yesterday! Thanks so much for all your help!
I like your idea, its good to have a breeding calculator to be more competitive with other site, but there are some limits about this.
At this moment, we don't have any breeding calculator :(
Our site is Wiki evironment, which has some limits about coding, so making a breeding calculator by wiki maybe impossible. While other sites (I think you refer the dragoncityguide.net) they are free environment (php), which enable them to code anything.
We can use another way as you suggest - but I prefer to add an iframe for external links, not just the link, so I will look like an part of wiki
Nmtan, I was indeed referring to dragoncity guide. Because of the limitations of the wiki, I was thinking to just use his breeding calculator. Also, I didn't want to make more work for you. That is why I suggested linking to his, if that's ok. I don't think it would be competition for us, because even though his site is nice, there is no place to really discuss things. I was thinking more of affiliation, where he promotes us on his site and we put a link to his. You, Jens, Nic, Ivan & Cyber would have to talk about that. It would be cool if we could have one here. (A lot less breeding questions!) But any way you think is good is fine with me.
Nmtan, I checked a little further on that guides "Friends" page and he has already linked to us and given credit to Andy and you. It reads:
"Dragon City Wiki
Dragon City Wiki over at Wikia has the most complete information about the Dragon City game of any site. It’s updated by the community and usually rather quickly. The odds used in the calculator are largely derived from a formula first posted on the Wiki by Andibad. Also check out NmTan’s blog for some good information and examples about Dragon City breeding."
Nmtan, I haven't had time to try it yet, but I will test some stuff out! Cyberdrgn, yes, Joseph is a very nice guy...I already almost gave him a heart attack asking him if he was sure all his calculations were correct since LaW update! So someone else can ask him about same parents! :D
Is that your own domain? What type of hosting do you have? I have 5 "nodes" at VPS.net that run about $100/mo (plus some for server monitoring and stuff like that). I would imagine the wiki gets several times as much traffic as my site does. The calculator does take a lot more server resources than the normal blog would. (Assuming you're not pre-computing everything. I considered that, but with so many possible combinations ... most of which will never be used ... it seemed it would be rather unweildy to do so.)
Thanks for the reminder on the X + X = X switch CyBeRdrgn. I am aware that's how it used to function with Legends in particular. I haven't done any testing on it lately, but it seems to me that it may no longer apply.
In the case of Pures, polling in Facebook groups and responses to the site has returned roughly the same odds for Legend from Pure + Pure as for Pure Hybrid + Pure or Pure Hybrid + Pure Hybrid. If there was a switch, I would expect Pure + Pure to perform much worse than the others.
In regards to Legends, I haven't seen results of Legend X + Legend X = Legend X reported very much since the Light and War update. It used to be relatively easy to get a specific Legend that way, but now I suspect it's been weakened or done away with entirely. (I haven't tested it though. I only have 1 of each ... sans Droconos.)
It's possible it's just due to the small sample size in both cases. I would need to see evidence of the switch working before accepting it's still there though.
The reason I tend to that side of things is just basic human nature ...
I get a lot of flak for not having a result in the calculator that should be in there. It's immediately obvious that I'm wrong if I return a set of eggs that doesn't include the egg someone gets. If I return a set of eggs that includes the egg someone gets, and a superfluous egg, it's not immediately obvious that there's a superfluous egg.
Also, if the odds are higher than they should be (as happens when the number of eggs returned are reduced), it will lead to more discontent than if they're lower (as happens when the number of eggs is increased). If someone gets the dragon they are after faster than expected, they're happy. If they get the dragon they're after slower than expected, they get frustrated.
So from my perspective, it's generally safer to give more dragons than less when in doubt ;)
NmTan ... A question specifically about Poo. I see you only return it when a Legend is involved on one side? I've gotten reports of two hybrids with Terra/Sea/Dark between them still resulting in Poo since the Light and War update, but it seems a bit rarer than before (if that's possible), and nothing confirmed. Is it intentional that you've left it out?
The old Legendary + Legendary = Legendary majority no longer seems to apply. I was testing for that, but since then Nmtan has concluded more or less that it's no longer true.
We'll update the Breeding Page as soon as we can, Nmtan was trying to explain to us about the changes, but I think I got lost somewhere along the way, and he's a bit shy about his English (even though I think his English is fine.) As soon as we get it sorted out, there should be an update to the Breeding page.
Actually, you should read Joe's explanation. It's written so that even I can understand it! It's broken down to a very basic level and I think it would make more sense to our users. Perhaps Joe would be kind enough to let us use it, with the proper credit, of course! ;)
Hi guys, the breeding system of the game is changed majorly since LaW update, we just didn't find out it earlier. Things I know currently:
They uses similar algorithm of Monster Legends breeding system.
The possible dragons is fully functional in the tool
The probability (chance) in the tool is the out-dated version (its the system before the LaW update)
Currently, new system don't use Total Rate, Unlock slot, difficulties. So levels of parent dragons are irrelevent (I told you how this system is similar with Monster Legends)
With many test breedings, I've gotten how the probability (chance) system works (for both games). And this new system is more easier, simpler than the old one.
@Josephseeley: I've tested the Poo Dragon, I can confirm with you that its impossible to get one with only hybrids, because breeding hybrids only triggers matching 2 elements together, there no place for the third element. Also it only trigger the "breedable==1" possible dragons.
Only when there's a wildcard in the breeding, it will seek for all dragons:
1 wildcard + element(s): elemental, hybrid, rare, exclusive that have the specific element(s) (from the not-wildcard parent)
2 wildcard: all breedable dragons (include legends too)
So, I must say that: Poo (exclusive) is gotten by breeding with atleast 1 wildcard (legend) involve. And the if elements from the other parent are more identical with Poo elements, the chance for Poo will be higher
@Nmtan: I don't see any problems with your explanation. You could have just updated the Breeding System on your own without waiting for us. Bugger the grammar. It's understandable, and that's all that matters at this stage.
I just want to say that I still have difficulty understanding it. Nmtan, you're a genius..but I think you give most of us too much credit to think that we can follow you...because you think at such a high level. Most of us need you to simplify how you explain things to us. Especially the younger users may not understand...not because of your English..your English is perfectly fine. It's just that we are not nearly as smart as you are. Perhaps if you could give some picture examples when you do the new page. I still don't know what a wild card is. Is it a Legend? What dragons are considered wildcards? Also, for those of us who have never played Monster Legends, we don't know what that breeding system is either...so a comparison to it will not help us understand it. Thank you Nmtan...we would be lost without you! Don't worry about the grammar! I can fix up any little problem. It's what I do best! <3
Thanks for that explanation NmTan. Richmond Nguyen had told me some similar things about the breeding formula being a lot simpler after the Light and War update, but wasn't so explicit about how.
I had noticed (and been recommending) that Poo and the level exclusives should be bred with Legend + [right elements] but wasn't sure how it was working underneath the hood. Wasn't sure if the non-Legend pairings were still possible.
I missed your comment last night CyBeRdrgn. I've actually been working on a new version of the calculator that doesn't use the old odds formula since before the Light/War update. Just been slow about it... partly because I wasn't sure about some points, partly because I've been busy keeping the current one updated, adding to the site, trying to keep the server ahead of the visitor increases, and doing the yearly visa run-around. Should have the new version of the calculator ready to go soon. :)
The site should be a bit more robust than it was a week ago. I've added extra server resources from the host and eliminated a major memory hog portion of the "How To Breed" section. Probably can still get Cloudflare to protest if you send too many requests too fast... but that's by design.
The new calculator is still not implemented yet. That's just some quick hacks to tide me over. In the process of redoing everything from the ground up. Including the theme to be more friendly for mobile devices.
Dragon City: To know which monster will be 60 and which will be 40, I think first is compare the Category, then compare the display order. The dragon with higher value will have the less chance in output.
Monster Legends: To know which monster will be 70 and which will be 30, I think first is compare the rarity, then compare the breeding time. The monster with higher value will have the less chance in output.
This is my speculation depending on the results (me mostly and from friends), so I can only explain it statistically, since all the algorithm code are server-side.
Thanks for the explanation. I take it this 60:40 holds true for Mud/Waterfall too?
I think I may just not implement this due to how easy it is for them to change it without it becoming immediately obvious. (As I suspect was happening in our Mud/Waterfall testing...)
What happens when those factors you mention are the same? Not sure if it can happen in DC ... I haven't looked at display order enough to recall off the top of my head ... but it can happen in Monster Legends where rarity and breeding time are the same. Most of the Epic pairs for instance.
Not enough trials/reports to be sure I got them in the right order. It seemed in the cases I looked at that it was the lower level first element that would correspond to the more common result. I wasn't looking at any of the underlying factors at the time so it was all "in-game" analysis. For instance: (might be old breeding times, this was what it was when I was testing ... haven't been able to play my main account for a month now :( )
Scorchpeg (fire) more common than Skipples (light) - both E, both 35 hours
Terracrank (earth) more common than Duchess (magic) - both E, both 27 hours
Fliploch (water) more common than Razfeesh (dark) - both E, both 20 hours
Rhynex (nature) more common than Rabidex (thunder) - both E, Rabidex 6.5, Rhynex 5
Am I right about the relationship between these E's? Rhynex:Rabidex fits what you're saying due to breeding time differences, but the others are the same in regards to both rarity and breeding time (as well as earnings which I first considered given DC's old breeding system).
That leads to the question, what happens when there's more than just 2 possible results? In Monster Legends it seems the ratios stay the same but the odds of course fall for all results when more monsters are involved. At least outside of Legends, which are a fixed percent as you say,and Epics which I wasn't able to test at all.
The 70:30 fits closely to my testing. I saw ~3:1 for Firanda:Pandaken when breeding Fire Lion + Panda in over 200 trials.
I saw ~5:3:1 for Fire Lion:Firanda:Pandaken when using Fire Lion + Pandaken also in over 200 trials.
I wasn't able to test any combinations that would add an Epic to the mix due to longer breeding times.
Andi, this percentage was the chance modifier before the update and (my oppinion) its only use for breeding special dragons: Rare Dragon & Legend Dragons. My point is new system does not use this, that's why I've tested Sea + Terra = 60% Mud & 40% Waterfall.
Also if assume that the percentage is still used (dificulty is still used), please explain these result:
Archangel + War
Test: Archangel Dragon: 57.485, War Dragon: 42.5149
Andi's: Archangel = War = 50%
Tan's: Archangel = 60%, War Dragon = 40%
Flaming Rock + Volcano
Test: Terra Dragon: 25, Flaming Rock Dragon: 32.3353, Flame Dragon: 23.4031, Volcano Dragon: 19.2614
Andi's: Terra = Flaming Rock = Flame = Volcano = 25 %
Tan's: Terra = Flame = 25%, Flaming Rock = 30%, Volcano = 20%
Alpine Dragon  + Medieval Dragon 
Test: Flaming Rock Dragon: 16.2674, Armadillo Dragon: 22.8542, Pearl Dragon: 13.972, Cool Fire Dragon: 16.2674, Volcano Dragon: 9.481, Soccer Dragon: 10.5788, Platinum Dragon: 10.5788
Soccer = 45%
Cool Fire = Volcano = Flaming Rock = 40/3 = 13.33%
Armadillo = Pearl = Platinum = 15/3 = 5%
Tan's: there are 4 cases
25% of f/e => 15% Flaming Rock & 10% Volcano
25% of m/e => Armadillo
25% of f/i => 15% Cool Fire & 10% Soccer
25% of m/i => 15% Pearl & 10% Platinum
I don't say my calculation is correct, its just hypothesis according to the results I got.
Nmtan, I have been using your calculator to try and find a combo for Great White. I have tried elemental Terra + Sea and hybrid Terra + Sea dragons...none of them give Great White as a result. What am I doing wrong? Same for Plankton too.
Thanks Joe. And me only L-36! I do have a Legendary Dragon, but he is rocking in the Kindergarten. I can't get him out until L-38. So I guess I will have to wait for a bit to breed any of those dragons.
the percentage result always like this. Zombie or armadillo always on 1st or 2nd place, carnivore or tropical always on 3rd and 4th, and cactus or Rattlesnake is always on 5 or 6. i already tes it 100x, the result is always like that (with different value). it will different on other combination depend total of them.
Another = Leviathan x Nirobi (Legend) :
Leviathan Dragon (1167) 12.1
Red Woods Dragon (1166) 10.1
Colossal Dragon (1165) 9.9
Juggernaut Dragon (1164) 9.9
War Dragon (1163) 9.3
Mud Dragon (1016) 3.4
Waterfall Dragon (1057) 3.4
Blizzard Dragon (1046) 3.3
Pure Sea Dragon (1075) 3.3
Seahorse Dragon (1084) 3.2
Sea Dragon (1033) 2.7
Poo Dragon (1044) 2.7
Luminsicent Dragon (1161) 2.7
Ice Cream Dragon (1060) 2.4
Icecube Dragon (1019) 2.4
Nenufar Dragon (1017) 2.3
Pirate Dragon (1051) 2.2
Petroleum Dragon (1007) 2
Seashell Dragon (1065) 2
Storm Dragon (1059) 1.9
Cloud Dragon (1014) 1.9
Plankton Dragon (1092) 1.9
Coral Dragon (1055) 1.8
Lantern Fish Dragon (1004) 1.7
Mercury Dragon (1002) 1.5
since i not play DC, so i not care on this one. so bye.
Since is almost random, so i was predict this used complex formula with random value.
That tool uses old breeding system. I'm considering making tool with new breeding system. But there is 1 problem, new system that I figure out is mainly speculation depends on breeding results, and Andi & me still don't have agreements with the new system until now, so I don't want to make one yet